Monday, August 5, 2019

Vakano: Panda Exchange opens its doors in Colombia

Episode Notes

Vakano's Twitter account.
The peer to peer exchange platforms LocalBitcoins and Ccoins. There was a fleeting mention to
The Panada Exchange website and that of Xpay.
Cobru, the company with which Xpay made an alliance.
We talk about these tellers and these.
On the law 028 and its circumstances.
The scams that Vakano MeCoin and MMMGlobal alluded to.
Dear OneCoin and her good manners.
The scam of Mt Gox.
What is a Ponzi scheme.
The situation of cryptocurrencies in Colombia, as we have been reporting in CriptoNoticas.
The event where Xpay appeared and there were hamburgers paid with cryptocurrencies.

Elena: Hi Vakano, how are you? Welcome to In Consensus.

Vakano: Hello, thank you very much for inviting me, greetings to the whole audience and well, it's a pleasure to be here with you in this podcast

Elena: Thank you. Thank you for taking the time and tell us a little. How is the thing about crypto in Colombia? Is it true all that they say that Colombia is practically the Latin American nation where cryptos make life almost that, well, normal, everyone is already in crypto?

Vakano: Well, there are myths and realities. I am a Colombian-Venezuelan, I am a person who thirty-five years ago migrated to Venezuela with all my family and, well, my whole life was spent in Venezuela. Four years ago I am here again in Colombia trying to make life, to do business and I think that, so far, Colombia is a country quite cryptofriendly but it does not take away the throne yet to our nation Venezuela which are the ones we know most about using Crypts and the ones we use the most. Now an adoption boom is being generated in Colombia, Colombia in Latin America is the third to move more bitcoins in peer-to-peer or in platform like LocalBitcoins, like where Bitcoin moves a lot from hand to hand and we have been generating together with my company an explosion of adoption, right? There has been a lot of talk about the payment processors, the Exchanges, this week started operations again, and then, seeing it in a pleasant way, from the South American side I think we are a crypto-friendly country so far, although the regulations They don't help much either, do they?

Elena: Yes, I think that in the previous episode I made the comment that part of Colombia's success in the crypto issue, you can thank Venezuela that Venezuelans had to learn at full speed and speed.

Vakano: Yes, that is true. Actually in my personal case, where I learned crypto was in Venezuela, where I started using crypto for my daily life and my business was in Venezuela and I brought that knowledge here three to four years ago that I arrived here. I thought people were more aware of technology. Here there was an explosion of crypts in 2016 to 2017 but it was mostly because of the scams like Milcoin, OneCoin, like all those known ponies that were here in vogue. Many of the people who know crypto today in Colombia are victims of those ponzis who dedicated themselves to learn what it was really that they tried to sell him. There are people who are using Bitcoin, Colombia for those who do not know, they are in serious economic problems, there is a tremendous devaluation, not as tremendous as that of our country Venezuela, but there is a devaluation that is hanging many people. The dollar here in Colombia two years ago went from 1600 pesos to 3400 in its historical record, that, for many people who do not know about economy means devaluation and many people have understood, as we have already understood many Venezuelans long ago that CriptoBitcoin It is made to preserve the value of our properties and that is a difficult lesson to learn, that we have learned in Venezuela very well, and in Colombia they are learning it little by little.

Elena: Vakano, you have the honor of being the first in history to mention OneCoin as a ponzi in this podcast, a greeting to OneCoin and all the ponzi in the ecosystem, thank you. Here we are receiving your love, we will be quietly receiving all your expressions of affection and thanks.

José: That moment is because literally OneCoin was one of our biggest fans in CriptoNoticias, so it was worth limiting that point.

Vakano: I know firsthand, because the first lecture I gave here in Colombia, when OneCoin had not yet fallen down as the ponzineros say, there were people who had really put $ 30,000-40,000 to that and when they told me that It was like, I couldn't believe it, it was the currency that was going to revolutionize the world. Me, that is recorded in a video where I tell them that this is a scam and the people of MeCoin were there face to face, I also told them that that is a scam because, if you do not own your private keys you do not have Bitcoin You can fall into a very easy ponzi. How is it detected? If you don't have your private keys, if you don't have control of your crypto, that's a ponzi. That is why it is not recommended, I am the owner of an Exchange and I tell you, it is not advisable to leave your bitcoin in the Exchange, be it that of Vakano, that of chan come chow whatever, because really those are tools that They are used to change your crypto for something else and get out. I give people a very easy example: when you are going to change dollars, you do not go and change dollars and say in a week I come for dollars, you hand over your pesos or bolivars and they give you the dollars and you leave happily. So, it exactly behaves the same in the crypts. There are many new people, and I speak to new people, the Exchange are not wallets, not because I have an Exchange I will tell you to deposit all the money in a batch, we have custodians, third parties that guarantee that, but always Hackers are smarter than all of us and you don't have to take risks. So, simple, if you don't have your crypts, they're not yours, even if they're in Exchange. So, you have to be very careful with this.

Elena: Not your keys, not your crypts, it's like that.

José: Since you mentioned the schemes like this, how is it today? Are you still in vogue in Colombia? Have you gone down? I don't know if the government has become more rigid with that.

Vakano: Colombia I think it is the only country to have a law for the ponzi and I think that a ponzi comes out daily and I think that a ponzi comes out daily with Bitcoins, with whatever it is, here they make ponzi even with sandwiches. So, this country is a country where people like to get into pyramids. There is now, last week a pyramid was discovered that was called I think The Women's Loom was for WhatsApp and promised you a return of up to $ 35,000 to 90 million pesos if you invested as $ 16. So, unfortunately for ordinary people, I learned a long time ago that, if they promise you profitability, run away, in Colombia they love ponzi, in Colombia they love pyramids, the problem is that they don't expect to fall into a pyramid to learn from This technology, this technology is free, you can ask about CriptoNoticias, read all the good articles here and learn and never ignore when you are promised profits, just run away that this is a pyramid.

Elena: In general, everything that offers you money coming out from under the sidewalks may suspect that it is a scam, that is, money does not grow on trees. And well, in the case of OneCoin it doesn't even have a blockchain, that is, more or less? It is a pyramid scheme selling itself as if it were a blockchain.

Vakano: Really stop, let's make a bit of bitcoin history, for those who don't know the first scam with Bitcoin it was called MMM, it was in China when Bitcoin goes from 150 to 1000 and tip between the middle that there was the hacking of Mt. Gox also existed the MMM pyramid that was one of the ones that was giving the price a boost, so whenever there is something as good as Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies there is going to be someone so intelligent that they will use it for evil. Bitcoin is used in Colombia to make pyramids because, as the government has not recognized that it is money, then, when you are going to file the complaint, they simply tell you: oh no, sir, excuse me, that is not money, that is, in theory they did not steal anything, then, criminals take advantage of all laws that are not made or those that are made and scammed many people with Bitcoin. The point came that the famous pyramid called MeCoin grabbed the director who managed to steal more than 400 million dollars in Colombia alone in Bitcoin, he was taken prisoner and at twelve hours he was released because Bitcoin is not money. So, you just have to be careful. Really what Elena says is very true, nobody is going to give her anything for free and, without working and without effort there is no reward

José: I was curious: if in Colombia they don't recognize Bitcoin as money, they don't recognize it as a property or a good either?

Vakano: They recognize it as property and good but there are also absurd circulars that the government made here that was what had us scrubbed from us, to our exchange. We are a company that started here in Colombia two and a half years ago and we have not been able to operate, we are operating in Panama and in Europe because the Banking Superintendence that is one of the regulatory entities told a recommendation in a paper called circulars to banks that could not guard or have any relationship with cryptocurrencies but natural persons are in their free right to do what they want with Bitcoin as long as, if you buy, sell or do something with cryptocurrencies as it is expressed in its value of the moment in pesos What does that mean for the people who are listening to us? That you can sell your house for Bitcoin, you can sell your car for Bitcoin, you can buy and sell things for Bitcoin as long as in the end it is expressed in current currency or in Colombian pesos, that does not mean that you are going to evade taxes With Bitcoin, no sir, that here is an entity called DIAN and it is worse than coconut. So, if you live made money with Bitcoin and buy a house, look for a good accountant, declare your occasional earnings that cost them 10% and pay your taxes because here that is quite rigorous, although that is part of it , as a propaganda for the government but I would recommend that you be at peace and declare your Bitcoin or if you bought something with Bitcoin, a car, a house, because here are some things that are called exogenous reports and they are quite rigorous, that is, practically when you buy something in Colombia from a store and spend a certain amount they throw you into the water with the government and if you don't declare, sooner or later, they have ten years to claim you. So, be careful the Colombians who are listening to us. It is a recommendation of someone who is doing things well, let's not think because because it is Bitcoin, it is not money and it is not necessary to declare it, but if you bought something like a house, a car, a motorcycle and you exceed your minimum wages, well , seek advice and declare that, because there the government wants your taxes.

Elena: The government always wants your taxes.

Vakano: Exactly, he always wants his taxes, he doesn't admit that it's money, but you still have to give me my tax slice always.

Elena: It's like that and you change it please. Please change it to me in pesos because I don't know anything about Bitcoin, I don't know how to handle wallets, you give it to me in Colombian pesos. Well, Bill 028, tell me, how is that? Do you know any of that?

Vakano: Of course, we know something about 028. Well, first, it is the result of people who don't have a very good reputation, I'm not going to say anything because really those people who promoted that Law were doing as a Law for their benefit, Some people who have a reputation for networking, not to say anything else here and, you can look for it in the news, are denounced for the same reason, joined with a senator and made a bill where you to trade with cryptos had to have Trader's license, practically paying for everything and that did not prosper, that 028 will not prosper. Right now with the Blockchain Colombia table of which I am a part we promoted another new Law called the Exchanges Law, for those who do not know why, someone told me that I was very happy because I was promoting an Exchange Law But, if we go to the base of the pyramid of what is the basis of crypto assets for you to make smart contracts, buy, sell and that this is in a legal way there has to be a tool with which you change your cryptos to your currency local, whether Bolívares, or Colombian pesos, or Chilean pesos to do everything, with that you can make smart contracts, you can buy smart contracts, you can buy and sell your bitcoins, change them, then, we are promoting with the Senator Mauricio Toro a new Law that comes to break schemes, we do not get into the discussion that if Bitcoin is money or not, we just want to have legal tools, that exchanges are 100% legal In order to standardize what the cryptocurrency business ecosystem is. Then, the 028 was a bad attempt, malicious, since it came out we have been opponents of that Law because it does not favor anyone, it really favored those who were putting it, I imagine they were going to make a company to regulate the Traders and that they were asking for a whole Law. So, here in Colombia there are many discussions because if you enter a Law into education, those in charge of education must enter, if you enter what money the Central Bank has to enter, then, the Law wanted to cover a lot and in the end I wanted to benefit a few. That did not prosper, I really do not think it is a good Law, until the Central Bank itself gave an opinion that it was not a Law that served to promote the ecosystem but rather restricted something that they still do not know, so they are clear They don't know what Bitcoin is yet or cryptocurrency and they'll wait a bit, right? Right now the tone of aggression government has been lowered with the arrival of the new Duque government and its theme of "economy shuffles" which has also been a smoke bomb for international people. Everyone thinks that it is easy to undertake in Colombia, but I think that undertaking in Colombia is more difficult than in all the countries of the world.

Elena: Ha! Let me laugh. Undertaking in Colombia is more difficult than in all countries of the world! Try to undertake in Venezuela.

Vakano: Here I tell you that it is easier today, with all the difficulties, to undertake in Venezuela. It is easier, seriously, I am talking to him from the womb's womb and I tell him that, I, coming from Venezuela, living everything that is happening, today it is easier to undertake in Venezuela than in Colombia. Why? Because there is a smoke bomb, that is, it really is very difficult everything that is said to what is going on inside. Unfortunately this is a country of threads as Colombians say, unfortunately this is a country where you have to be of a good last name, look very nice, not be chubby and bearded, just like me, if you speak differently you see it differently, if not He studied at the best universities in the country, it is practically more difficult for him to undertake. So, there are many things that, until you are not in here you don't know, and more than I come from Venezuela, then, when you come from Venezuela here you see that everything is easier there, but being here in the bowels of the Wolf told him that, even today, it is super easy to do it in Venezuela with everything that is happening. The only thing, there are always all those thugs that we have there and corrupt policemen and police, but here they also exist and worse, because they are dressed in suits, they speak beautifully and they do not have the face of pigs, so that is very difficult here because you do not know who

José: There they are white-collar and here they are more direct, and such?

Vakano: Yes, but here they are more brave because they speak to you beautifully, they speak to you in English, French, German and they cheer you as if it were the worst of the thugs.

Elena: I think, I am of the opinion that, any legal framework, but a clear legal framework has to favor entrepreneurship, you know what to expect and ergo you know how to project growth, investment or marketing. In Venezuela the laws are not clear, they are ambiguous, they are gray, they leave a lot of discretion and then it seems that, just as you are saying, that contact and knowledge with people within ecosystems is needed to be able to to get involved, it turns out that at the moment of truth it is exactly the same, but since the laws themselves are ambiguous, then it gives a lot of space to discretion.

Vakano: Here in Colombia there is a very difficult thing, there are laws that instead of helping the entrepreneur sink it. There are many companies, including PayPal that tried to enter Colombia and could not, imagine a giant like PayPal, with all the billions of dollars they have, try to enter Colombia and fail in the attempt. What can happen to the poor as We, the patriarchies, those who come with 0.1 bitcoin to try to conquer the world? So, it is complicated, here Uber is illegal, here there is, for example, we are going to put for the people who are in Venezuela, here is the Senate, the House of Representatives that are like those who rule here, some say one thing and others They say otherwise, Uber is illegal for the Ministry of Transportation, but it is legal for the Ministry of Technology, so imagine how far the mess goes that even the government is not able to get into a single tonic, that is, for the Ministry Uber Transportation is illegal but for the Ministry of Technology it is legal, so if you drive Uber they can put you in jail, they can take your license for a lifetime. We are still in a thing like that, if those people are so big, if those people are so mega giant, what can other entrepreneurs expect, people who are making an app? Here the crowdfounding collaborative economy does not exist, it does not exist, it cannot exist because the law that of the ponzi or the pyramids called here “illegal collection of money” falls completely, so it is complicated. One is here and realizes that Latin America in general is, we are still like a little cavemen in that, right? While Japan, while everyone lets the crypto people or the new ventures play in the sandboxes, here if you want to do it is wrong, that is, beginning is wrong whatever it is, be it crypto, be profounding venture, be it new technologies that accept the big ones, because here there are also very large companies that have monopolies and make decisions. Here the government does not make decisions only, here very powerful people make decisions, and well, it is complicated, it looks very beautiful from the outside, it is like when you emigrate to the United States and you have to work in a restaurant, it is cool as a tourist, but He is hard of immigrant.

José: No, that is, what you have mentioned that it is smoke that the government sells, so I wanted to ask your opinion about what came out a few months ago that Colombia is going to be the world economic hub, one of the Blockchain innovation centers and I don't know what, of the world, and precisely what do you think of that? Is it also smoke? Can you help anything?
Vakano: Just one word we all know: straw, it's pure straw. I do not know who got that news, everyone here says that the government said, that is, I have an exchange and I have not been able to open it, that is, imagine how far it goes, a technology has cost us a lot of work, that we It has cost many things, a Colombian company working in Panama, working in Europe and we have not been able to open in our own home. So, that's straw, that's how I want to sell my country as the best in the world and where are the results? Let's see right now with the opening of uda with all that. How are we doing? Like all that, here is a whole uncertainty, it is not so easy to undertake. I remember when I was in Venezuela I had about fifty thousand ventures and they all worked, and now here I have two ventures and I have not been able to start, so it is straw, it is like a media show to cover all the internal problems that exist in Colombia, which They are sometimes bigger than those in Venezuela, but here there are better news and better media and better press freedom in quotes.

Elena: So, we talked about all the difficulties in Colombia, we mentioned some of the difficulties in Venezuela. Inside it is a paradox that we are talking about all these problems in such absolute terms and at the same time talk about Xpay tell us about that.

Vakano: Xpay is born from the need, from the same need that we have not been able to open the Exchange or the exchange house, well, I have always been thinking about crypto solutions for normal people. Yes? Because, very beautiful Bitcoin, blockchain, very beautiful all those issues, immutability, but you have to create solutions for our mother, for grandmother, for grandfather, for people to use, which is half gross, which It is half smart because I can use it. Then the idea of ​​a cryptocurrency payment processor that facilitates the lives of businesses, people who want to receive bitcoin, and, what we saw in 2018 that Bitcoin only went down, went down, went down and left a sad person born a lot of people, then, we created this payment processor called Xpay.Cash that what it does for businesses is to give transparency to the bitcoin x Fíat equation (in this case Colombian and Bolivarian pesos) You only put the amount on the web that you are going to charge, we generate the QR to receive the bitcoins, the client sends them and we automatically transform that to pesos or bolivars without headaches, we call it as “receive crypto easily and transparently”. It is a product that we have been developing for a year and a half and it went on the market at EXMA in Bogotá, we made a show here at EXMA in Bogotá, where we launched it with a company called Pago Inteligente and Home Burger, one of the most burgers Famous of the capital and it went well, we processed 175 hamburgers that we gave in crypto and after that, well, we started to have interested stores, we already have after alliances, with a company called Cobru where you can start charging after Registering in two minutes, start charging your products in crypto and receiving your weights, we have done very well. Two and a half weeks ago we had our first two stores processing bolivars, today we already have more than forty businesses throughout Venezuela registered and waiting to pass the validation, we are going to process bolivars, we are going to process Colombian pesos in a transparent way. It is like explaining that you have a Visa or Master Card point of sale, you receive the credit card and you do not know what happens behind, it is the same, you receive bitcoins, you do not know what happens behind and we solve your bolivars or your pesos . So, that's Xpay.

Elena: Okay, and you receive the bolivars or pesos directly at the company's bank, in the company's account

Vakano: You write in your control panel, at the moment you register, write your chamber of commerce, your commercial register, send your bank account where you want to receive your bolivars or your pesos and , if you have less than 500 thousand pesos that here are like 120 dollars every ten days the cut is made and it is sent, for the Venezuelan case, just process, the next day you have your bolivars in your account that you have or the same day In the afternoon you can have them depending on the amount. So, in the case of Venezuela, how it is very atypical, well, we are doing so in a fast way so that people do not risk the volatility of the bolivar.

Elena: Bolivar volatility is a very kind way of saying it. Yes, thanks for national reasons, if I receive the money the next day it is less silver.

Vakano: We can do it on the same day, because, for now we are doing it on the same day from Monday to Friday and if we manage to process Saturday we send it, but, we have more options for large businesses too, we have options that are They can negotiate with us inside and there are surprises for people in Venezuela. We will be there, we will give a big surprise, you over there who are listening to us and you can register register! Because then we are going to be very busy and then it's time to make the registration line.

Elena: Oh no for God, no more queues!

José: Vakano, I have a question about the payment platform. For example, payments in bolivars How were they handled with the government? I suppose that, if you need permission or something, here speaking from my ignorance for just payments in bolivars with bank transfer.

Vakano: We are taking advantage of the last interventions of the president who said that in the end he could make charges in foreign currency, really that is transparent to users. You are charging in bolivars or you are generating your collection in bolivars, people are paying with bitcoin, with cryptocurrencies that is a means of payment and we are answering for bolivars, then there is no foreign currency, we are only set at rates that are for the exchange of cryptos for bolivars, and well, waiting too, right? You know that there is uncertainty every second.

Elena: No, not at all, I don't know where you get that idea.

Vakano: If they scold us, then, they will scold us because if I prune the world already makes it informal to themselves. I have a law, really. What can happen? Well, turn us off and that is not going to happen because they already saw that the solution is not to turn people off, look at how Venezuela is doing by making those decisions and we hope, then, that they let us play, right? There are really already a lot of people doing it, we have other friends who are doing processes with Traki, and well, we all have the same right until they are removed. But for now we are taking risks, we are playing them because, first, I am always creating solutions thinking about our family, my family is also there in Venezuela, almost all my life is there, then, I want to also generate products that help Venezuela , not in the case as they have done several currencies or several tokens out there that I cannot name, which take advantage only, I call that: they use people as cryptomen. Yes? I want to generate a true solution because there we are thrown forward and I just have that solution that is waiting, because it is very easy to come and tell you, well, accept my VakanoCoin, stay with that and see how you change it, no, Accept cryptos and take the bolivars, and when you have them in your account you will see what you will do with them. That is a transparent solution for you, the fee that I charge is 3.99% plus the VAT of the process, that is made of the amount of the fiat and already, there it is ready, that is working, today it has been running for two months, it has been four months working here in Colombia bulletproof, and well, we hope that neither of the two governments will stop us, because anyway, whether in Colombia or in Venezuela there is the uncertainty that anyone can tell us: no, stop there.

Elena: They told Facebook.

José: And they keep telling you. And look, I have another question about the platform, that is, only from cryptocurrency to fiat? It cannot be, for example, since you told me that they also handle DAI which is a crypto. Can't they go from bitcoin to DAI, for example, if the user asked for it?

Vakano: Within the platform we have a button, which I have called the adoption generator button where you can also process the collection in bolivars and keep the crypts, simply enter your company setup, and remember that the processor can have it companies, people can have it, it does not necessarily have to have the commercial register, they can be natural persons. When you choose within the platform, what do you want? You can keep a percentage in bolivars and you can keep a percentage in cryptos, there is also the possibility that with the devices that we are going to put that are called PandaBTM, then, you can convert that crypto to another crypto later, but for now, For Venezuela we only have the option of receiving the cryptos as a means of payment, keeping the bolivars or keeping half the bolivars half crypts of what you received. What does that mean? If your client pays you in bitcoin 10 dollars, you can choose to have 50% transformed into bolivars because your provider needs bolivars and 50% stays in cryptocurrencies in your account, from the account you can register the withdrawal to your Wallet and the fiat would be to the account you already have registered. You can use any of the banks, of course, keep in mind what, if the banks have limits, the transfer will have to be distributed in several days because the bank limits always affect us there, the money goes faster than the bank limits, then Well, that's like an inconvenience that comes up there. Likewise, all users who are in Venezuela will have live support, they will talk to me directly if they need it to do any type of negotiations, we are open, we are not only closed to the part of which we deliver bolivars, we can Do a lot of things, but you have to talk to the Vakano. What is the registration process? You go to the Xpay.Cash page, register with your name, if you have a company below where it says company you put the name of your company with the RIF and voila, you have your password and your user, you enter and do everything from the platform. There you enter, where it says my company profile, you fill in your company profile, you upload the photo of your ID, you upload all the documents that are available and the validation process takes about four hours and in four hours you can start processing Bitcoin , Bitcoin Cash, DAI and other currency that will come on August 1st. We are going to queue Litecoin, Ethereum and we will be annexing everything that people tell us they need. Actually, I, as the owner of Exchange, already know that not, in Venezuela it is Bitcoin, a little bit of Ethereum, a little bit of Litecoin and a little bit of Bitcoin Cash. Bitcoin is still the king of transactions and I think it will remain there being the king a lot of time, and well, there you have it to enjoy it. Those who are programmers can make integrations, there on the same page is the documentation, because they make their own implementations, we have a plugin, we have a payment link that you create a virtual invoice and send it, the person can pay it to you at a distance , we have many options, we not only stay in the payment process, we will have charges for WhatsApp, we will have a lot of new things for people to enjoy, that is technology made in Colombia by Venezuelans. It is pure Venezuelans who do that, and well, there it is, if they do not use it, it is their responsibility

Elena: But the need is, that is more than clear, there is not enough hard cash in Venezuela to cover so much demand.

Vakano: The other option is what, for people who are going to Cúcuta, people who are coming down the border, well, there are already three ATMs called Panda BTM where people can go with their crypto, avoid the problem of Get down with money from Caracas to the border, if you do not want to bring your bitcoins on your phone, bring them annotated in your Paper Wallet or memorize them and once you go to Cucuta, you recover your wallet and can go to three points, there is a point in the stop, there is a point in the center of Cúcuta in front of the Ventura Plaza shopping center, there are four points where you can sell us bitcoins and receive the pesos in your hand directly, no matter if it is Venezuelan, it does not matter that you only have the ID, It doesn't matter if you don't have your passport stamped, well, there you can change your cryptos and also if you want to buy you can buy, that is another development called which is a low cost ATM also to, therefore, make more friends you open the purchase and sale transactions and in the case of the border, you sell your bitcoins and receive your pesos in cash and you can buy your food. We are working with several pharmacies and drug stores in Cúcuta to receive Xpay, that is, within a month and a half there will be about two hundred stores receiving crypto directly so that they do not have to change them, but, directly you go, buy your medicines, we are making alliances with pharmacies, we are making alliances with supermarkets and generating adoption what is most important, because the problem is that, in Colombia and Venezuela many of us have bitcoins but we have to go through the long and arduous task of changing them either to pesos or bolivars through platforms like LocalBitcoins where we expose ourselves to risks, because there are always scammers, people having a great time with us, because, only in thirty seconds or forty seconds can you have your bitcoins in pesos at ATMs.

José: Vakano, since you mentioned the cashiers at the border, how have they behaved? How many users have you had in the last month? That is, how has that moved?

Elena: Well, I'm collaborating with the people of Athena, the first cashier who got there was installed by me, the first cashier in Cúcuta who is at the stop. That cashier has behaved very well, and people are discovering the use, people have started to change from 20 - 30 dollars, the amounts less than 300 dollars at the Athena ATM have no commission, that is, if someone send 35 dollars in bitcoin you go and change them there in an easy way, and, in the Panda BTM that has about a month, it has behaved very well. Unlike an ATM this is a BTM, that is, there is always a person's interaction with the device, well, it is a bit more pleasant, people have come to change from 16 dollars onwards, we have seen many people come to buy with paper Wallet that have the LocalBitcoins Wallet printed to send 50,000 pesos to your family and that change them through Local, we have seen that 99% of the people who come are Venezuelan people who work in Cúcuta to send money to his family, and as always the ingenuity of Venezuelans in using the tools to help our people there in Venezuela, has behaved very well, has had a good acceptability in sales and purchases. The rate is not yet very favorable, but it is still a better option to change bitcoin to pesos in our ATMs than to change them in LocalBitcoins since you have to wait to send the transfer to Local, make the transfer, have a bank account in Colombia and that is not An easy step for people who come from Venezuela, because, first, they buy things in Cúcuta, almost everyone is sold in cash, then, it has been a good solution, what we are going to do is that, from here to About three and a half months, the plan is to have about forty ATMs in Cúcuta where people can go everywhere and about three hundred - four hundred stores that accept Xpay as a means of payment, that is, you can come with your wallet and pay. The good thing about all our Xpay.Cash and Panda BTM products is that you can use the wallet you want, non-custodial wallets like Coinomi, as you can't use wallets like Xapo, Coinbase because they are wallets that are custodial and transfers take a long time and are sometimes not immediate. We are making products that you can use your Wallets with which you really own your bitcoins.

Elena: And you don't plan on putting things like Lightning Network?

Vakano: Well, Lightning Network is on the road map, we are waiting. How we work with (unintelligible) which is how the custodian who protects us all the crypts, they are doing some implementations and they just have Lightning Network, well, it will be in all our products, of course, yes, I am not closed, Although many say that I am Bitcoin Cash, I am not closed to all implementations that serve, and well, as soon as the custodian has approved Lightning Network will be there, it will be in all our products: in Panda Exchange in Xpay, In Panda BTM, of course, there are many people who know that today a dollar transfer that we pay in bitcoin is a huge loss for the people of Venezuela, that's when you know that a dollar is really worth a lot of money if you're talking about Venezuela, even in Colombia, here is also enough money. We have seen 90% of the transactions that are being done right now are made with alternative currencies to Bitcoin for the same, in the case of buying DAI, in the case of buying Bitcoin Cash because it is easier to send it, because it costs me pennies to send it, no I'm going to lose one, two, three dollars when I buy it and then send it to my family, and so, we hope that Bitcoin and Lightning Network will work for that to end, right? And go back to the way it was before in 2013 - 2014 that it was virtually free to send a transfer.

Elena: Yes, that is a big difference.

José: Yes, that's the bad thing that the Bitcoin network is so congested with so much volume right now. But well, even so, we are talking about transactions at the moment, right? Because even today, one can send a one-dollar transaction and pay a penny of cents in bitcoins, clearly taking a long time and depending on how much patience the sender has.

Vakano: The problem is also that, for example, in the case of the Xpay implementation, when he detects that the transfer does not have enough fee the person has to wait, in case the transfer is more than 200 dollars, he has to wait until it is possible because we already saw two users who tried to make it alive to send transfers without fee So, what the system does is that he detects the fee is the one indicated and warns you if the fee is ok you can Go with your product now, that is one of the advantages of Xpay.Cash that you do not have to wait, if the system detects: the fee is the one indicated and it will be confirmed, I do not know, in six - seven hours, well, but also if it detects that it is a malicious fee as always happens, there is always a humorous, well, it will wait for you and it will tell you: well, sit there now to wait eight hours and if the rate changes, well, you will suffer the rate for funny. So, we already have enough experience for that, we already have enough funny people who have done thousands of things and there is always the malicious one, it is not a question of the network, sometimes there are people, in Colombia in 2017 there were many malicious people doing it with the pyramids Double spending on Bitcoin taking advantage of that failure, but hey, we already have that contemplated. We are waiting for our custodian to tell us that Lightning Network is ready to also implement it, we will not go against the flow by saying: no, we will not implement it , do not. We are going to implement everything that works because, well, we are all here for Bitcoin or if I were not working metalworking over there in my house and now.

Elena: Would you be a farmer? As I read these days.

Vakano: Being a farmer is one of my biggest dreams since I was little, but hey, now I'm going to be a crypto farmer

Elena: There it is, you can put your two dreams together: being the CEO of Panda Exchange and being a farmer, both at the same time

Vakano: Of course.

Elena: I get the feeling that, because of the problem, because of the crisis that Venezuela is going through and even because of, I don't know whether to call Colombia ambiguity or clarity regarding the legality and the legal framework that cryptocurrencies have, in instead, a situation of opportunity has been generated, that from which opportunities arise in crises, right? And it occurs to me to think, well, I know several people who travel to Cúcuta frequently, quite often to supply their homes and for those people something like the Xpay, something like the Panda BTM can make a difference, especially because, how The market creates what ends up happening is that the exchanges of dollars to Colombian pesos begin, because of the issue of too much supply they begin to fall and the exchange rate to pesos begins to be not so advantageous and they complain, they do not give me the pesos because There are many people selling dollars and they are buying them cheaper and cheaper, which we could do bypass if we turn to cryptos and not fiat cash.

Vakano: Already there we have done an exercise of how much you lose, say, if you come with cryptos to Cúcuta, to change it, to pass it to pesos, you are losing approximately 27% of the value of your money. The exercise with us happens to be, for now, how 15% but equal, a 10% that you are saving in speed, because you go there to our point at the stop, which is 35 meters from passing customs and in two minutes you have your pesos, that is, in two minutes you can buy your medicines, send money to a family member, buy anything. So, for now, 10% is being saved with us, at the moment that we are going to improve rates, really one of the news that I want to give first for this podcast is that Panda Exchange is finally going to open its doors to Colombian market as of July 15, then, with that the actor entered, already entered that we are connecting our Xpay volume there to be able to improve that rate and that the loss, of which we know, that that only We know that we have relatives there on the border, the people who go down to Cúcuta, the loss that exists when changing from bolivars to pesos, then, reduce, and you can come with your crypto and lose 5% and create a new marker, because that's what we're going to do, create a new dollar-Xpay or dollar-PandaBTM marker so people don't lose so much. The rate of Cúcuta is really very criminal, for the same reason, there is a lot of bolivars oversupply and people take advantage, apart from remittances, well, there are many things that are failing there and we want, with the opening of Panda and the opening of Buddha , the first is that Panda Exchange will open with Colombian pesos on July 15, those who have accounts can re-activate them.

José: In Colombia?

Vakano: Yes, in Colombia we will have this.

Elena: In Cúcuta?

Vakano: Yes, for all of Colombia. We are going to open the exchange of pesos for cryptocurrencies, we have 113 currencies and tokens for those who want to exchange them in the Exchange, and well, that is good news too. Now we have the news of last week of, and we also, after two and a half years of being trying here in the country of the sacred heart, well, we are going to open our doors to all and the most benefited with the rate They are going to be the people who use Xpay at the border or who use the Panda BTM since there will be a better exchange rate from bitcoin to pesos and you will pay a little more.

José: Vakano, I'm curious. Why now can you exchange pesos to bitcoin or any crypto? What has changed? That now seems, I do not know if it is the financial entity, the government, the banks, I have no idea, that now they are allowing it.

Vakano: It has never really been banned, but Exchanges, entities like Panda or like all Exchanges actors always need a financial partner where, those who don't know or those who are listening to us. What is an Exchange? What is not a exchange house, which is not a meeting point for people who have bitcoin on one side and other people who have fiat money, then, in the case of bitcoins, we have custodians who are properly professionalized in guarding the cryptos and in the case of pesos or money, then, we have the usual custodians: the banks, then, really the crypto world has yet to interact with the financial world. The interaction between the financial world and the crypto has been very demonized here in Colombia, that is, how is it that it can not be used to launder money and is that money is not used to launder money? Or are dollars not used to launder money? So, it has been very demonized until now, after three years they have realized that it is also a need that has been created, there is already a need for exchange houses, a real Exchange, for the person to stop being going out on the street, doing that for LocalBitcoins taking risks, being scammed, well, we are entities that provide for that, people can put their same rate, people can put their offer alone, we don't put rates, then, now government has lowered the tone a bit and apart we also have big actors like Facebook saying, people think that because Facebook said it was going to make a cryptocurrency now and yes that is true, cryptocurrencies have always existed for ten years and have always It has been true and they have always solved problems like the one we have right now in Venezuela, but the government is already realizing that it needs tools like the ones we have so that it becomes a bit more sincere the ecosystem. So, we are not authorized, but we see that there is an environment conducive to open, but still, there is still uncertainty and the idea is that the Exchange Law comes out so that we have clear rules, because Bitcoin in Colombia is really not prohibited and what is not expressly prohibited, then, is simply legal. This is how the laws are handled here in America, what is not expressly prohibited is legal for everyone to know, and there is something also, what is it that the government can never tell us what to do with our money because our money belongs to us. . So, if a bank is going to tell you: don't go interacting with the Exchange Panda, well, change banks and go to the bank that we are going to use now so that the bank sees that it depends on the customers, not the customers They depend on the bank. So, the mind has been changing and we really don't want to fall into discussions with the banks because they need us and we need them and we have to live together. For now we have to live for another ten - twenty years, when the banks already enter the crypto business because that will happen, it will happen that the banks will enter the crypto business and, the human being has a defect that always sees with confidence those who rob us, which is how financial institutions are.

Elena: It's funny because it's true.

Vakano: Against that nothing can be done. I remember that I was in Venezuela when the 100 bill change happened. Remember? And I saw people taking out the money boxes from under the beds and I said no, here we know who is the one who saves and who is not, so I saw the queue like five hundred people with banknote boxes and we said oh my dear, here they realized that I had money in the box, but hey, what is happening to us in Venezuela, gentlemen who are listening to us, can happen to any country. It makes me very angry when a lot of despotic people here in Colombia start talking about the fact that it's because of Venezuelans, it's because of me I don't know how much, and I say, I've been in Venezuela and there for 27 years It was all because of the Colombians, everything changes, everything changes. I remember a very funny anecdote that I tell my friends that it was when you were going to spend 25 years from Cúcuta to Ureña, which is already Venezuela, a National Guard was mounted and said “Who are Colombians?” hand, then I, then, raised one hand, "do the favor and get off", get off and there was a box with lime and the Colombians only had to walk on that box with lime. Then, one day I asked a Guardian why we Colombians had to walk on those boxes and he said “No, it's because in Colombia there is foot-and-mouth disease” and I said “Is it that the Venezuelans who come were not in Colombia? Do they float? ”They were really absurd, but the world is like Bitcoin, it changes, it goes down, it goes up and this is happening in Venezuela is transitory. I tell a lot of people get ready because the ones we know most about cryptos are the people who are in Venezuela, the ones that know how to use that pod, it's like the birth of the Internet, we really now know how to use the Internet money that is Bitcoin and cryptos and When this takes off, then, we will be the ones who are most prepared to make tools, to make Exchange, to work in crypto companies that are still small, but it will be the future. So, this can turn around in any second, any country can be at the level that Venezuela is right now, as Venezuela can be at higher levels as many countries are at the moment. So, we have many resources, we have a very important resource that CriptoNoticias already knows what the Venezuelan human resource is, we like to work and be smart to work. I am Colombian but my soul and my heart are more Venezuelan than that of many Venezuelans, all that I have I owe to Venezuela, all to Venezuela and God, so, I came 35 years ago practically naked from Colombia because of the war, for the guerrillas and everything we did we did in Venezuela, all the knowledge, all this crypto, everything I have, all my tools are made with 100% Venezuelan hands and thinking of our countrymen as always

José: Vakano What do you think of what the municipality of Bogotá did, the recognition of (56:59) first, a recognition by the municipality and the second, who called it Satoshi Nakamoto? That is, what do you think of that act? I really do not understand, I do not understand how the municipality of Bogotá gives such an easy recognition, I do not know, give me your opinion.

Vakano: I'm going to explain to you, you know that at the beginning of the program I said that 028 was sponsored by some dark entities, these same dark entities that have people within the government that they manipulate and said that clown, that we all know is a Clown was Satoshi Nakamoto. So, really imagine, it is so easy for a person who speaks English, that we are still at the same level as when the Spaniards came to colonize us, speak English, they tell him that it is anyone and they give him that honor, so, it really shows for me what is Colombia, that is Colombia, I said in English “This is Colombia, being so ignorant that because they speak English they are superior to all of us, so it is disrespectful to the crypto community. We did something with the Blockchain Colombia Foundation and we did something with the senator who is on our side, we sent them a letter explaining everything and told them that they made us look like clowns in front of the world, that is, that is a clown and people who organized that hopefully that month is listening they were like a shoe, they were like stupid, here are people who know, who knows more than you, who knows more than us and everyone who has three front fingers knows that this is a scammer, and well, I don't know why that currency is still going up and there are still people who are still stubborn here in Colombia saying, well, everything they say, I don't want to say anything else because even rage gives me that, that was how, we two and a half years standing in line and a stupid person who speaks English comes and gives him an honor from the Chamber, although that is also there, it is easier to enter than, I do not know, easier to enter than anywhere, so it is not That is something, a recognition of the president or something, although being here in Colombia could also happen. So, for you to see what we were talking about at the beginning, this is the country of setbacks, right?

Elena: The truth is that that was the WTF moment of the year so far.

Vakano: We fell like Condorito: Plop. And, worst of all, they made the event along with an event that we were sponsoring called Campus Party, they spent all the money in the world, in that event they spent $ 70,000, made their show, made a very annoying pod Well, because the Colombian media is very showceros and they like the show, the show that is the real Satoshi and blah, blah, blah, but then we saw him crying there in the Court, right?

Elena: Yes, that was a satisfying moment, it must be said.

Vakano: After all, I thank you for taking me into account for this interview and remember that the products we are creating are for us to use, many people sometimes like to criticize without using things, at less register and see what works.

Elena: Well, let's invite, there is the Xpay.Cash website, you can come in, you can go for a walk, go on an adventure tourism and register and find out what this is about. They have Vakano on @VaKaNoBTC on Twitter, they can access him, ask him questions, drop him over to answer any questions they have.

Vakano: Well, greetings to all and remember those who are listening to us and doing projects, that we are still too small to compete with each other, in the crypto ecosystem you can have the ideas you want, like the crypto you want and if you They write to me, where they write to me, they will always find a person who answers them, I am not an envious person or who is attacking the other projects, if you have a venture I hope you do well and have persistence that is one of the bases of this ecosystem, to be persistent, we already see CriptoNoticias where it has been since when I was born I was there looking at Hector with his blog and look where we are going, so, be persistent so that it lasts in time as we have done.

Elena: And there is nothing left but to thank you Vakano for being with us here, for giving us this first and certainly good news. I thank you also José again for joining me and serving as moral and logistical support.

José: Always to order.

Elena: There is nothing left but to invite you to the next episode of In Consensus, see you then.